I do not think this means what you think it means.

[merrily]

I'm getting both confused and annoyed by the people on the ST XI kink memes who think that the way you write pairings (ie Kirk/Spock) somehow indicates that, if there's sex in the story, the second person listed is the one who's being penetrated.

This is stupid, and I'd like it to stop.

That is to say, if it was an actual convention, it would be stupid (because a)relationships don't work like that and b)what about when girls are involved? Pegging's awesome, ok?).

But it is also stupid because that is not the convention! The Star Trek convention is that pairings go in order of rank! (Right?) So, therefore, if someone was writing Spock/Kirk, it would indicate a universe in which Spock out-ranked Kirk.

Am I missing something, though? Were you all indicating a code I didn't get when writing in other fandoms? Because I was putting people in order randomly when I was writing pairing info in my story notes for HP fics, and I was going alphabetically by last name for SGA (I like that convention best), and I never noticed if y'all were indicating the person who was a "bottom" (quotes because AAAAARGH) when you said your stories included an Emmagen/Dex pairing.

Anyway. That is my gender/sex-vocab related rant of the day.

Comments

[omens]

oh god, YES. the top/bottom thing irritates the crap outta me. maybe it's a really old convention that's coming back because it's an old fandom (sort of)? that's what i figured was happening, anyway. have never noticed by rank.. i thought kirk/spock was just alphabetical.

[waketosleep]

Order used to matter in listed pairings in most slash fandoms (the dominant partner always came first--haha double entendre) but fandom's mostly getting away from that these days, as far as I can tell. You still get your die-hards, though. Switching would traditionally be denoted with something like 'Kirk/Spock/Kirk'--that does not imply there are two Kirks. I have never cared and just always use K/S pretty much. I have probably annoyed many people by doing that in fics where Kirk ends up on the bottom. Hee.

[glitterandlube]

I came here to say what she said. And for a bonus, she explained clearer than I would.

[merrily]

i thought kirk/spock was just alphabetical.

I thought that too, until someone (telesilla, maybe?) wrote a "welcome to ST fandom, newbies!" post.

[merrily]

Order used to matter in listed pairings in most slash fandoms (the dominant partner always came first--haha double entendre) but fandom's mostly getting away from that these days, as far as I can tell.

I feel the same way about this tradition as I feel when reading old K/S fics that are all "lube? who needs lube? we're not even going to mention lube!". Totally not realistic! Gay sex - you're writing it wrong!

[waketosleep]

Oh, oh! This is like me whenever I go, 'Anal sex? Again? Fandom, please!'

[merrily]

Oh, oh! This is like me whenever I go, 'Anal sex? Again? Fandom, please!'

Apparently what what in the butt is the best and most fulfilling sexual experience two men can have. *is skeptical*

[waketosleep]

The universal concern over swallowing provides a compelling argument to the contrary. ;)

[dancing_serpent]

Here via a related comment thread.

I first learned about that name-order thing when I entered HP fandom in 2004. I got used to it very fast and came to expect that a certain order of names meant a certain dynamic in the pairing. It didn't necessarily mean that the one named first was the one topping/penetrating - but yeah, it was often used like that. But it often also indicated who was the more dominant in the relationship. More bossy, more active, more demanding...you name it.

I have to admit that I found it to be very useful to me, as it helped me finding fics/pairings that fit my reading preferences.

[merrily]

I find it very interesting that your HP experience fit that model, whereas when I started reading HP fanfic - at the same time you did - no one suggested it to me and I never noticed. Not only that, but when I check the stuff I bookmarked, the pairings are usually listed in order of either a)who's POV the story is from or b)who the author is more invested in.

(I was predominantly reading Remus/Sirius, though, and if ever there were canon switches, they are them.)

I suppose my annoyance with the practice also is because when I look at story notes, I assume that the pairing listed indicates a relationship that arches before and beyond the story, and I assume the sexual dynamics within the relationship are going to be fluid.

Your understanding of what makes the more dominant partner isn't the understanding that was pissing me off, though, on the kink meme -- there, it was "who is penetrating who? write the pairings in an order that indicates this!" which makes me roll my eyes with great vigour.

In any case, I suspect that assuming a pairing listing indicates dominance isn't going to work well in Star Trek fandom. For one thing, the "Kirk/Spock" tag is used for everything; for another, old-skool Trek fans seem to write pairings in order of rank... but I find that confusing and hard to do - does Spock outrank McCoy?, so I think I'm gonna stick to alphabetical.