The Ethics of Linking
Feb. 3rd, 2007 01:47 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
merrilyI'm uploading all my fandom links to del.icio.us (an activity that's dreadfully boring, but somehow delights the archivist in me), and I find myself faced with a dilemma.
A year or two ago, my intense love for Firefly led me to fandom. The overlap between fandoms led me from Firefly to Harry Potter. I scoffed initially, but then I found![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
musesfool's huge and fabulous Remus/Sirius rec list: So, PoA Finally Convinced You That SB/RL Is Canon! Here's The Fic You Must Read!, and I was hooked.
And then, because I'm obsessive, I tracked down replacements for all the links on her list which had expired since 2004, when she put it up.
Mostly, the links weren't working because the authors had retooled their sites. However, there are a couple that expired because something went down and the people who wrote their fics got the hell out of Dodge. Anne P, for example, erased all traces she could find for "Whom He May Devour" because she'd gone over to... wait for it... the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle fandom. (I'm trying hard not to judge. I mean, it's not like canon-HP is Art with a capital A, apologies to JKR.) I think Arabella and Firelocks (of Sugar Quill) had some kind of falling out, because their 3-part fic, "Down From The Tree", got the same treatment. (Although part two is still up on Sugar Quill, which is odd.)
The thing, though, is that nothing really dies on the interweb, and I'm a crafty websearcher, and therefore I found all the stuff that the authors tried to erase from existence. [ETA, for clarity:Found on places where the authors seem to have posted them themselves, but, at the same time, these places -- mostly mailing list archives -- are such that they can't be readily altered. I'm not talking about Wayback.]
So, the dilemma is this: do I post links? I'm leaning towards yes. The pieces were, after all, originally published online, and have been read by hundreds of people already. They probably exist on dozens of hard-drives and I'm sure that they've been printed out.
In addition, I have little patience with people who deny their previous work because they're now interested in something new. [ETA, again for clarity: And I mean precisely that, not "removed because the authors are now publishing work on paper under the same name and don't want their stuff to be confused." I realize that motivation for removing web-archived work varies.]
That said, there are articles of mine which I'm terribly embarrassed about -- stuff I wrote in highschool or my early twenties -- and the fact that they can be found through Google irritates me. Juvenalia may be interesting to researchers, but my youthful pompousity makes me blush, and the thought that various people in my life might find them is horrifying. (Same with my early erotica. It's blackmail city, I tell you.)
I think this is different than what happens when you switch fandoms, but I can understand how it's possible someone might have the same reaction to their previous fanfic efforts as I do to my unfortunate 1993 highschool essay for the Quotidien website. (And don't bother googling: I was successful in getting that one off the server.)
On the other hand, though, I'm pretty convinced by the argument that publishing your work means it no longer belongs solely to you. [ETA, again, because this was sloppy of me: I don't mean that it's "no longer your work," I mean that it takes on a life beyond you, and that it exists in other people's heads, and that it becomes part of the collective imagination.]
What do you think, o flist? Where should the line in the sand be drawn?
[ETA: Erring on the side of "not-pissing-people-off," and also "not-being-so-self-important-as-to-think-that-I'm-the-only-one-who-can-use-Google," I'm not posting the links. */unnecessary Saturday-hand-wringing * Whew. Wankery is exhausting, you know? And I'm still sitting in my pajamyas as I write this, so it's clearly time to stop.]
A year or two ago, my intense love for Firefly led me to fandom. The overlap between fandoms led me from Firefly to Harry Potter. I scoffed initially, but then I found
musesfool's huge and fabulous Remus/Sirius rec list: So, PoA Finally Convinced You That SB/RL Is Canon! Here's The Fic You Must Read!, and I was hooked.And then, because I'm obsessive, I tracked down replacements for all the links on her list which had expired since 2004, when she put it up.
Mostly, the links weren't working because the authors had retooled their sites. However, there are a couple that expired because something went down and the people who wrote their fics got the hell out of Dodge. Anne P, for example, erased all traces she could find for "Whom He May Devour" because she'd gone over to... wait for it... the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle fandom. (I'm trying hard not to judge. I mean, it's not like canon-HP is Art with a capital A, apologies to JKR.) I think Arabella and Firelocks (of Sugar Quill) had some kind of falling out, because their 3-part fic, "Down From The Tree", got the same treatment. (Although part two is still up on Sugar Quill, which is odd.)
The thing, though, is that nothing really dies on the interweb, and I'm a crafty websearcher, and therefore I found all the stuff that the authors tried to erase from existence. [ETA, for clarity:Found on places where the authors seem to have posted them themselves, but, at the same time, these places -- mostly mailing list archives -- are such that they can't be readily altered. I'm not talking about Wayback.]
So, the dilemma is this: do I post links? I'm leaning towards yes. The pieces were, after all, originally published online, and have been read by hundreds of people already. They probably exist on dozens of hard-drives and I'm sure that they've been printed out.
In addition, I have little patience with people who deny their previous work because they're now interested in something new. [ETA, again for clarity: And I mean precisely that, not "removed because the authors are now publishing work on paper under the same name and don't want their stuff to be confused." I realize that motivation for removing web-archived work varies.]
That said, there are articles of mine which I'm terribly embarrassed about -- stuff I wrote in highschool or my early twenties -- and the fact that they can be found through Google irritates me. Juvenalia may be interesting to researchers, but my youthful pompousity makes me blush, and the thought that various people in my life might find them is horrifying. (Same with my early erotica. It's blackmail city, I tell you.)
I think this is different than what happens when you switch fandoms, but I can understand how it's possible someone might have the same reaction to their previous fanfic efforts as I do to my unfortunate 1993 highschool essay for the Quotidien website. (And don't bother googling: I was successful in getting that one off the server.)
On the other hand, though, I'm pretty convinced by the argument that publishing your work means it no longer belongs solely to you. [ETA, again, because this was sloppy of me: I don't mean that it's "no longer your work," I mean that it takes on a life beyond you, and that it exists in other people's heads, and that it becomes part of the collective imagination.]
What do you think, o flist? Where should the line in the sand be drawn?
[ETA: Erring on the side of "not-pissing-people-off," and also "not-being-so-self-important-as-to-think-that-I'm-the-only-one-who-can-use-Google," I'm not posting the links. *
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
(no subject)
Date: 2007-02-03 10:18 pm (UTC)I am in the process of taking down all of my fanfic, wherever it has been posted, because I'm now working on a novel and want none of my old (admittedly pr0n-ish) work online. I'm fine with people having it saved on their hard drives, to read when they like, but when I take my fanfic offline I want it to stay offline. Therefore I'm afraid I have issues with your following statement:
In addition, I have little patience with people who deny their previous work because they're now interested in something new.
It is often not just a case of being 'interested in something new'. For a fanfic author who has turned professional, their future career could be at stake. Even in the case of someone who is not a professional author, there could be many other reasons they wanted their fanfic offline. It might be that it could jeopardise any number of things: their job, their marriage, or their status in church.
There are many reasons why a fanfic writer might take their work offline, and denying others is probably the least of their concerns.
I'm a crafty websearcher, and therefore I found all the stuff that the authors tried to erase from existence.
They will have had their reasons for wanting that fic gone. I would hope that anyone on my friends list would respect my reasons for wanting my own fanfic gone, regardless of whether the Wayback Machine had captured it or not. I reiterate that I don't mind if they want to save a copy to read at their leisure, but re-posting it anywhere online could very well end up shattering any future career I have as a published author.
I am proud of my fanfic, and I'm glad to have had the chance to write in such great fandoms. But I want to concentrate on the future now, and on my long-held dream of seeing my name on the shelves in Waterstones and Ottakars. I don't want to spend that time worrying whether some old BDSM fic that I once wrote is going to pop up and bite me on the arse...
(no subject)
Date: 2007-02-03 10:44 pm (UTC)That said, the problem faced was not whether to repost (which, to me, is unequivocably rude), nor to link to mirror sites or Wayback posts, but whether it was acceptable to post links to places where the authors themselves had originally posted their work, and where it still remains. The dilemma is that location -- a mailing list archive -- seems impervious to revision, and that the authors in question seem to have tried to thoroughly erase the pieces elsewhere.
In addition, unlike you (and
Anyway. I'm done worrying about it, I think, at least until I end up finishing my own novel and have to figure out whether I want people knowing that I wrote Mal/River.
Also
Date: 2007-02-03 11:00 pm (UTC)It is often not just a case of being 'interested in something new'. For a fanfic author who has turned professional, their future career could be at stake.
Whether or not "it often is," in the cases in question, it certainly seemed to be. I wasn't generalizing all instances of authors deciding to remove online postings. I do understand the dilemma, and the concern about being associated with previous stuff when you've chosen an entirely different genre to write in. Furthermore, if you're writing under the same moniker, it seems wise to make sure that confusion is avoided.
That said, I continue to be puzzled by the perception that fanfic will scuttle writing careers. I've seen several writers get signed (Naomi Novik, Meg Cabot), and their past dabblings haven't hurt them. As demonstrated neatly by the case of Cassandra Claire, publishers don't care at all about fanfiction involvement. I may be proved wrong -- after all, her first YA book hasn't officially hit shelves yet, and some reporter somewhere may dredge up the fanfic plagiarism stuff and stuff may go down. I think they're not going to bother, though.